Salute 2017 after action

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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby EX-F » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:25 am

Some nice shots of the games there. Also it would appear that there is photographic proof of my attendance after all - I thought I had escaped all the cameras.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby mcfonz » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:44 pm

Also for those that may have been wondering, the chap on the right of Manatic's last two images is richred - so yes, he is alive and well, just insanely busy! Was good to see him.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby manatic » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:32 pm

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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby 6milPhil » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:49 pm

I did like the pillars in Fonz' hall, proper nice.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby mcfonz » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:17 pm

Just for Arty, I slammed all of my images into one spoiler and then put together a quick youtube montage. I edited my previous post so it's all there on page one.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby manatic » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:41 am

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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby Rev Nice » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:56 pm

Was this only Salute in living memory that no one put on a version of Operation Market Garden?

Great selection of photos. I was going to say, especially for those of us who weren't there, but then again I had some years where I was on the game table all day and saw practically nothing of anything else!
Then there's that weird sensation when you read a blog report of a Salute that you know for an absolute certainty that you attended but don't recognise anything in the photographs. It's usually preceded by a whine that there was more fantasy on show than any other year (and provide evidence of this with one pic of a Sci Fi table - because to some dolts anything non historical is all fantasy), followed by hundreds and hundreds of pictures of tanks.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby mcfonz » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:59 pm

That last bit Rev, is not only bang on but is happening over on LAF this very minute.

Bar SAGA, I don't see many historical companies actively offering participation games to demonstrate their game to punters. On the other hand, you had the likes of Anvil Industries, Spartan Games, Wild West Exodus, Guldball and more all having such games scattered around the hall. Because there is an energy and a drawing in of such tables, even though they are typically smaller, I think people translate this as being more of them.

I'm not sure that there is. But in my view at the moment there is a larger emphasis on "tabletop" games, moving away from those large games that only a few people are likely to be able to accommodate to games that can be played on a kitchen table, even a coffee table in some cases. And who can blame people?
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby aliensurfer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:01 pm

Quite a few comments on TMP about the decline of wargaming and the lack of Historical games at Salute. Demo tables and participations games should draw people in, I mentioned a lot of the worst tables - just a cloth chucked down, no-one engaging those watching and not a lot happening were club historical games and they just sit they and tend to ignore people a lot - not that many people seem drawn to going and watching nothing happening on a table where no one talks to you ;-)
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby Rev Nice » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:19 pm

mcfonz wrote:That last bit Rev, is not only bang on but is happening over on LAF this very minute.


I'm not surprised to hear it on TMP as there's a lot of miserable buggers with limited viewpoints there but I'm saddened to hear LAF have indulged in that sport too. I always thought that they were much wider in scope and a haven of the imagination. Not that I can say anything on there. I forgot my password and the email account linked for recovery expired over 5 years ago.

aliensurfer wrote:I mentioned a lot of the worst tables - just a cloth chucked down, no-one engaging those watching and not a lot happening were club historical games and they just sit they and tend to ignore people a lot.

Serious business this ignoring people. Being friendly is for the kiddies and geeks, not serious historical researchers!!!
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby aliensurfer » Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:48 pm

Rev Nice wrote:
mcfonz wrote:That last bit Rev, is not only bang on but is happening over on LAF this very minute.


I'm not surprised to hear it on TMP as there's a lot of miserable buggers with limited viewpoints there but I'm saddened to hear LAF have indulged in that sport too. I always thought that they were much wider in scope and a haven of the imagination. Not that I can say anything on there. I forgot my password and the email account linked for recovery expired over 5 years ago.

aliensurfer wrote:I mentioned a lot of the worst tables - just a cloth chucked down, no-one engaging those watching and not a lot happening were club historical games and they just sit they and tend to ignore people a lot.

Serious business this ignoring people. Being friendly is for the kiddies and geeks, not serious historical researchers!!!


Yeh but don't be 'too' friendly, remember that incident the other year? :dodgy:
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby mcfonz » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:48 pm

I remember rev desperately trying to rid his event decks of non child-friendly cards before they could get their grubby little mits on them!!! And their parents realise how they had probably just rolled dice on the wrong table for their kids!
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby manatic » Sat Apr 29, 2017 1:21 pm

Rev Nice wrote:I'm not surprised to hear it on TMP as there's a lot of miserable buggers with limited viewpoints there but I'm saddened to hear LAF have indulged in that sport too. I always thought that they were much wider in scope and a haven of the imagination. Not that I can say anything on there. I forgot my password and the email account linked for recovery expired over 5 years ago.

LAF is really mixed, though. Many of the boards have their own crowds that rarely wander out to look at the rest of the site :D
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby levied troop » Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:51 pm

mcfonz wrote:That last bit Rev, is not only bang on but is happening over on LAF this very minute.

Bar SAGA, I don't see many historical companies actively offering participation games to demonstrate their game to punters. On the other hand, you had the likes of Anvil Industries, Spartan Games, Wild West Exodus, Guldball and more all having such games scattered around the hall. Because there is an energy and a drawing in of such tables, even though they are typically smaller, I think people translate this as being more of them


I suspect that's true. I did a quick count through the Salute catalogue and there were 26 games described as fantasy or sci-if and 37 described as historical. The numbers might have evened up a little as Spartan Games were listed under one entry but had several tables, but I don't quite see the end of historical gaming yet.

There's also quite a split in style of company, (wild generalisation looming, engage lower gear) where sci-if and fantasy companies tend to do rules and figures and most historical companies tend to do figures and individuals do rules so historical games aren't often selling a specific product but the concept of gaming or a particular period. That may make the sci-fi/fantasy element a bit more professional and the historical chappies more 'relaxed'?
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby ADB » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:05 pm

levied troop wrote:...

There's also quite a split in style of company, (wild generalisation looming, engage lower gear) where sci-if and fantasy companies tend to do rules and figures and most historical companies tend to do figures and individuals do rules so historical games aren't often selling a specific product but the concept of gaming or a particular period. That may make the sci-fi/fantasy element a bit more professional and the historical chappies more 'relaxed'?


Interesting point there - I assume it's because 'real' figures can be used across rule sets so it's easier for small groups of people to create rules knowing they will gave a ready source of figures where as Sci-fi and fantasy need figures to match the rules leading to the larger companies doing both rules and figures. Interesting this is seen with the Songs of rule sets starting with generic troops (orc / undead etc) before moving onto his own range of figures to match the newer rules.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby AKULA » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:16 pm

Just wondering what did those of you that went to Salute think of the games that won all of the awards?

As someone that didn't go, from the photos they don't look particularly awe inspiring, either in scale, or quality.... given they won multiple awards each, were they much better in real life, and were they a cut above the other games...?

:/

Have the judges posted any comments anywhere about what they were looking for....just curious.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby wait, what? » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:37 pm

I thought fort mosquito was a perfectly reasonable game, nice enough board and minis, well presented.and that's all. Best historical? dunno seems unlikely but nothing else leaps to mind.

The witch racing was a fun enough thing but almost rudimentary. I can't comprehend how this beat out anything least of all...

Cretaceous camp was great looking (except for the furry grass, ymmv) and a fun idea and if anything was clearly deserving of awards, sure, this one. I don't understand how it's possible for this to get the best in show but not the best sf?

Of the also-rans i think the rogue one game should have been the runaway winner for innovation, and the best looking stuff was on a lot of the smaller boards - the mierce one, the temple thing fonz picked out, and the drowned earth ones.

Fuck knows what the warlords are thinking. I mostly assume some random historical game wins everything and don't worry about it.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby AKULA » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:57 pm

wait, what? wrote:
The witch racing was a fun enough thing but almost rudimentary. I can't comprehend how this beat out anything....


Indeed....how exactly did the discworld racing game win "Best Sci-fi/Fantasy"....?

No offense to whoever "built" the board, but it looks like it could have been drawn on the train on the way to Salute....I hope they were suitably embarrassed to have won an award for it....

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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby manatic » Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:23 am

Where can you see the various winners? I don't even recall seeing a Discworld game...

The Jurassic Park game was maybe my favourite setup of the whole show. Fort Mosquito was definitely a spectacle, but a fairly standard one, if you can describe a spectacle 'standard'. Well built and painted, massive (don't know if photos convey this, but it was really big), filled with lovely little details but nothing very innovative. Still the best historical thing on show I think, although the Philippines thing was lovely too.
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Re: Salute 2017 after action

Postby mcfonz » Sun Apr 30, 2017 11:11 am

I would like to know how they judge the tables as well. Also what the boundaries are for the awards.

They have a trader sponsored table award now, so does that mean such tables can't qualify for the other awards as to encourage clubs/groups more?

I say that because as has been said, I walked past Fort Mosquito and even took a photo I think, but there was nothing overly reach out and grab you about it. Just an average ish table IMHO. Not a bad table, but nothing special either. For me, for it to have been special the sea would have been at least water effects or a layer of perspex built into the board, rather than just painted. I felt the fort didn't blend in as well as it could have either. Minor quibbles but for me, ones that if address would have pushed it up a notch or two.

I didn't see the Jurassic Park game in person, and the photo's I have seen leave me in two minds. Definitely a great undertaking of a board and full of character and fun. Very much top notch in that regard. I believe it was a participation game, so for me, you can forgive a bit of finesse for the fact it was designed for the masses to get their grubby, in some case little, hands on.

To be honest, the judging for tables has baffled me for years, I care little for it. Although I did love it when Rev won the most Innovative table the year he almost de-bowled himself with it.
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